OLIVIER GABET

Olivier Gabet. Département des Objets d'art. Musée du Louvre © 2022 Musée du Louvre. Audrey Viger.

Since September 2022, Olivier Gabet is the Head of the Decorative Arts Department at the Louvre Museum, after previously serving as Deputy Director General of the MAD and Director of the Musées des Arts Décoratifs in Paris. Born in 1976, Olivier Gabet graduated from the École Nationale des Chartes and the École Nationale du Patrimoine. He became Curator of the Furniture and Decorative Arts Collection at the Musée d'Art Moderne de la Ville de Paris (2002 to 2004), then Curator of the 1850-1900 Collections at the Musée d'Orsay (2005-2007). From 2008 to 2013, Olivier Gabet joined Agence France-Muséums for the Louvre Abu Dhabi project as curator of decorative arts (from 2008 to 2013) and deputy scientific director (from 2011 to 2013).

In 2013, he was appointed Director of the Musées des Arts Décoratifs and then Deputy Director General in 2019, where he injected new momentum. He is notably responsible for the exhibition "Christian Dior, Couturier du rêve" (2017-2018), which attracted nearly 710,000 visitors, as well as the "Luxes" exhibition presented at the Louvre Abu Dhabi (2019) and in Paris (2020), and most recently, the presentation of the Claude and François-Xavier Lalanne donation at the Musée des Arts Décoratifs.

LUCIJA ŠUTEJ: Decorative objects are testaments of history, cultural movements, and specific value systems. How did your early fascination with objects shape your approach to curating?

OLIVIER GABET: Those experiences were crucial, making me want to become a curator. Since childhood, I have always been fascinated by the history behind different places and objects, and I adored listening to stories from my grandparents. It's funny because the other weekend, I was exchanging memories with my father and I realized that I was able to describe the featured places due to these stories, which is very useful for my job as a curator.

I would not say that as a curator, I am a scholar or as knowledgeable as many of my colleagues at the Louvre are. Perhaps mine is a more subjective memory, which helps me in so many projects and books. Nowadays, people often associate me with being a curator of fashion, but I do not see myself as a fashion specialist. I am a curator  interested in fashion.

LŠ: Your background is dedicated to the study of archives and contemporary art. Of special attention is the programme Correspondances at Musée d’Orsay, where you facilitated conversations and learning for contemporary artists to engage with historical collections. What prompted the idea?

OG: I have always been interested in contemporary art. However, my educational background and my first curatorial positions were related to historical objects. The fascination—almost obsessional—arose from my time at the Musée d'Art Moderne de la Ville de Paris under the director Suzanne Pagé, a leading figure in terms of art history. I learned a lot from her and met many new artists and friends. She prompted me to start thinking: How important is the gaze and the approach of the artist? A great teaching by Suzanne Pagé is that you have to respect the artists—to listen to them, and as soon as you want to work with them, you have to trust them—there is a kind of freedom. This vision became my practice. 

You have to trust the artists, and you are not here to have ideas instead of them. Ultimately, my goal as a curator was always to make exhibitions meaningful and projects relevant, but also never obnoxious for the visitors. (laughs) Through learning from objects, I was very touched by the emotions that so many artists would feel when they realize that they’re in dialogue with important artworks that matter to them.

LŠ: What key lessons did you take away from Correspondances?

OG: Efficiency. Understanding quietness. No drama. (laughs) Since working with Laurence des Cars, for the Louvre Abu Dhabi, I have learned a lot. If there was a lot of drama around us, she gave me the best lesson in life: You must not be afraid. 

LŠ: What do you think is the future of museum archives, having witnessed the impact of artists’ activation of archives through research? Also, were there mentors, colleagues, or peers who shaped your unique curatorial approach, seated in interdisciplinary dialogue?

OG: It's funny because when I was at Musée d'Art Moderne de la Ville de Paris, my office neighbor was Hans Ulrich Obrist. I came from a very classical background, and my daily curatorial life was focused on archives. However, upon meeting Hans Ulrich Obrist, I remember his talks about what archives are, which opened a completely different way in understanding, utterly fascinating for me. His words made me return to the essence of collections and to truly see their power, which is incredible.

Also, having worked in institutions where we built collections from scratch (Louvre Abu Dhabi), and now at the Louvre, with one of the most famous collections in the world, I clearly see that the collections are the future. As you can notice, more and more, artworks’ travels will be increasingly complex. I believe that it is important to reassess the problematics of traveling and temporary exhibitions—we need to redefine them.

If we take, for example, the Louvre and the exhibition Art and Fashion: Statement Piece, we do not have more than 100 looks and accessories. Yet, we have collections of thousands of objects across different periods, and it is vital to find new and innovative ways to present collections in a reactivated mode. I do not like the approach of some of my colleagues across the industry when they arrive at museums and, after observing collections, think, "We need more objects/artworks." It is very naive and, at the end of the day, a bit counterproductive. The history and practice of countries' objects are meaningful. So from time to time, if we can buy a beautiful object to enrich the vision, we can propose to the public—that’s perfectly fine. Nevertheless, we have to deal with our collections in their present state and reassess them—it is ultimately our job as curators to take care of them.

LŠ: At Musée des Arts Décoratifs (MAD), you transformed an institution into a dynamic learning space with exhibitions and new conversations on Dior, Schiaparelli, and even Harper’s Bazaar. How did you convince institutions of specific heritage and traditions—first MAD, now the Louvre—that fashion moves beyond applied art, an art form in its own right, and can foster dialogue within collections in a new light? Also, did you face any resistance in the redefinition of MAD?

OG: When I left the Musée des Arts Décoratifs three years ago, people would say: “Oh, so many great fashion exhibitions.” But I have to say that we did wonderful design and craft exhibitions on design of South Korea (KOREA NOW! CRAFT, DESIGN, FASHION AND GRAPHIC DESIGN IN KOREA), Japan (JAPON-JAPONISMES, OBJETS INSPIRÉS 1867-2018), the first retrospective on Gio Ponti ever organized in France, and a show dedicated to The Maharajah of Indore and his vision in modernism, among many other projects. We even reorganized all the collections’ displays of design and craft in the permanent galleries in 2018.

It's always a bit frustrating to see that people relate this work (at MAD) across those years solely to fashion, because it was one aspect, even if it was for sure  a strategic one. For a private museum such as the Musée des Arts Décoratifs, it was important to have a good relationship with the fashion world and industry for the financial health of the institution. However, my goal was always to be creative regarding exhibitions on fashion, and I wanted to go big thematically across the history of fashion— I supported curatorial projects from the team to present the changes across silhouette, the history of the fashion scandal, the shoes, etc. We had a very global and comprehensive approach, due to the ideas of curator Denis Bruna. 

You spoke of the exhibitions of Schiaparelli, and I also think back to Thierry Mugler—my goal was always to connect them with art. As I stated before, I am not a fashion specialist, and I find that what resonates more is when fashion moves beyond fashion. Fashion people talking to fashion people, curators to curators, artists just to artists—it's the most boring thing. (laughs) What I love is when people mix and exchange ideas. As we were shaping the show on Dior, I aimed to have this vision be a part of artistic development. Christian Dior is a unique figure who came from Art to Fashion, and this is a continuing history of the House of Dior since 1947, and John Galliano embodied it perfectly. 

However, it can be a challenge when you are required to respect certain rules. I am sorry to be so introspective—I am thinking of the Louvre Abu Dhabi project with many constraints due to the diplomatic agreement between the two nations, which is quite heavy but exciting to deal with. So, having instincts working and respecting rules, it is best to play and be creative. To be honest, I'm not always creative from scratch. (laughs) When some say start with a "blank white page," I love to do it as soon as I start writing, but starting can be painful. But if you ask me to work with specific elements, constraints, and rules to respect, then it’s different, and I must confess that this kind of challenge I love.

And it was the same at the Musée des Arts Décoratifs— there was this strong and complicated relationship with brands and design and fashion industries - actually since the founding of the museum in the 1880s, and the programming had to deal with it. For me, the most interesting things are interconnected. Why should we not take this approach to define, imagine, or conceive exhibitions or programs? And the artists I love are the people who connect and challenge. The writers I love and the books connect several worlds. At the Louvre, it was fantastic because it gives you great freedom to choose—to be able to invite to the museum contemporary fashion brands, artists, and creative directors, and create new connections by co-working and having open discussions. 

Regarding inspirations, I have always been a big fan of museums which are a world by themselves, with their own rules, it can be big institutions, like the Louvre or The Metropolitan Museum, and there is one very special museum to my heart, the Victoria & Albert Museum, a place where I have spent countless hours. But there can also be smaller but powerfully inspirational- The Beyeler Foundation, The Kröller-Müller Museum in Otterlo, the Menil Foundation in Houston, the Glenstone Foundation, —very often, places where you must make a certain effort to access. I love them because they tell us about the importance of the museum as an experience. Inspirations are also people: Suzanne Pagé, Henri Loyrette, Alfred Pacquement, my director Laurence des Cars, and many others. 

Facing resistance? Perhaps, but not that consciously…  No one loves change per se, and it is never easy to share ideas and to understand why some changes are needed. I love collective working, and exchanging, discussing.

LŠ: Are there any plans to potentially build a collection within the Louvre dedicated to fashion and clothing?

OG: No. For nine years, I had the privilege—the honor—to direct a museum with a great fashion collection. With the Met, V&A, Palais Galliera, and Kyoto Fashion Institute, it is ranked in the top five. Today's challenge is dealing with an incomprehensibly vast collection of fashion and textiles. It's a big investment, so starting from ground zero makes no sense, especially because in the French system, national collections are distributed between institutions in a very subtle and efficient way. At the Louvre, we have art from all periods across different collections, from archaeology to the mid-nineteenth century; fashion is not part of our mission. So there is no reason for us to start from scratch when another institution next door, the Musée des Arts Décoratifs, does it beautifully every day.

LŠ: Why was there a focus in Art and Fashion: Statement Piece on post-1960s fashion? Having previously staged an exhibition opening conversations around the notion and definition of luxury at Louvre Abu Dhabi, which presented the works of Charles Frederick Worth, Paul Poiret, etc., why not play around with different fashion periods?

OG: I was not so much in favor of having earlier pieces due to their display complexity. I suppose what was interesting was not to show the fashion of the time in front of the object of the same period, it had already been done. An 18th-century dress in an 18th-century period room—quite boring from my point of view. 

It is much more interesting to assess the influence and the inspiration of past-time objects on contemporary creation, and to then trace the thinking of the artistic directors of various fashion houses and their creative process. It is vital to make these two worlds meet through an exhibition.

Christian Dior © Musée du Louvre - Nicolas Bousser

Christian Dior and Alexander McQueen © Musée du Louvre - Nicolas Bousser

Fendi © Musée du Louvre - Nicolas Bousser

LŠ: Art and Fashion displays intervene in the Department of Decorative Arts and its collections at the Louvre. How does this intervention reflect your definition/vision of museums as dynamic spaces moving beyond static collections? Moving forward, what role will museums and fashion houses play in shaping how we understand our material culture? 

OG: There are many discussions in museums today about the distinction between permanent galleries and temporary exhibitions.  I believe in the power and seduction of collections, the artworks you come to visit and revisit, but I understand that you always need to think of these collections in a dynamic way, en mouvement. And the best way to do this is to introduce some other realities within the museum spaces, new visitors, new displays, different artworks, and I am not only thinking of contemporary art. It can show artworks from another part of the Louvre, guest artworks from other institutions—sometimes only one object. Our material culture and visual culture are nowadays infinite and images are all over us. While overwhelming, it is a fantastic opportunity and museums and fashion designers can help bring some different lights, underline some aspects, curate some different visions or attitudes. The current exhibition is a bridge between these two worlds and shows their infinite potential connections. In an era of digital, fashion houses and museums bring back a high level of reality, touching, looking, experiencing, walking, and desiring.

Rick Owens © Musée du Louvre - Nicolas Bousser

Versace © Musée du Louvre - Nicolas Bousser

Jean Paul Gaultier © Musée du Louvre- Nicolas Matheus

YSL © Musée du Louvre- Nicolas Matheus

Chanel © Musée du Louvre -Nicolas Matheus

LŠ: The exhibitions saw unique conversations and pairings between works of art, such as tapestries next to creations by designers such as Dries Van Noten—how did these units emerge?

OG: It really depended on the designer and the object. Sometimes the connection is very straightforward—very clear and documented. Or that the designer has an affinity with specific artwork because you can reference it through documentation, archives, past interviews, or even if they were collectors of this kind of object(s). And the third category, I would say—the pairing was more poetic and more subjective. I believe that this exhibition could have been done a totally different way with another curator, and it would have been perfectly fine.

At one point, when you're a curator, you make some choices—and I was certainly a bit more subjective in this exhibition, searching and connecting the lines. Also, the work of Nathalie Crinière, who designed the exhibition, is inspiring —with whom I have loved to work since my time at the Musée des Arts Décoratifs, where we together presented the work of Christian Dior, Elsa Schiaparelli, etc. I love the fact that we understand each other. I always find the success of exhibitions also rests on the good relationship with designers, to bring the visions of the curator to light.

Having gone to so many fashion shows over the years as a non-fashion person, I wanted to approach Art and Fashion not with fashion but with storytelling eyes. To approach it with curiosity, passion, and to gather knowledge. 

Dior © Musée du Louvre - Nicolas Matheus

LŠ: Did any pairings surprise you?

OG: Not that much. I have very few regrets. Generally speaking, in life, I have no regrets because it doesn’t help to have regrets. (laughs) Again, introspective, my grandmother used to say: “It's done. Move forward. Don’t dwell.”

LŠ: That is very Édith Piaf and Non, je ne regrette rien. (laughs)

OG: Yes, exactly. (laughs)

LŠ: And how do you see that this exhibition reframes luxury for you? Art and Fashion: Statement Piece subtly reveals the tension and a distinct space between heritage and commodity.

OG: I agree, it assesses many points of the relationship between art and luxury. In my point of view, the first common element —for example, when we talk about craft and craftsmanship, what better collection than the Louvre as the highest quality of these? I think there is also a clear fascination among many creative directors within fashion for what a museum is. It’s not specifically the Louvre by itself. It is thrilling to ask yourself many questions after an exhibition, as we give a lot of attention and energy to the catalog, to understand everything that is before.

And it's funny because I'm always playing with ideas of exhibitions myself, the way I could ask someone to work on some project, to make the ideal casting. I have been very proud to have entrusted the Musée des Arts Décoratifs, a wonderful design and architecture curator, Chloé Pitiot, with the exhibition devoted to Iris Van Herpen, to translate her vision beyond fashion. And to make the loop regarding Art and Fashion—and regarding your question—what is fascinating to me is that the Louvre is the place that champions long-term production, creativity, tradition, and knowledge. For the world of luxury and fashion, so obsessed with changing, collections, and seasons—I think it's productive to be at one point facing another reality of history and art history, another sense of time. 

I believe that if there is a crisis of luxury in fashion, it's due to the rhythm that is perhaps not so meaningful today, which is exactly why so many creative directors love this exhibition. By placing fashion within a museum context, it moves it beyond a showcase to a deeper reason, of constantly learning. Designers are not superficial people. 

Through choosing pieces for Art and Fashion, I realized that nothing is by chance. I have never believed that anything is by chance. Versace, Alaïa, Elsa Schiaparelli, McQueen—very different people, different visions and voices. However, as we sat down and started writing down the featured pieces for the exhibition, we realized that many of the designs are from a very specific year, 1997. A great year for fashion—let us just think of Alexander McQueen’s "It’s a Jungle Out There"show — a masterpiece exhibition. It was genius! And it is exciting to share these works, references, and studies with the audience. 

Louis Vuitton © Musée du Louvre - Nicolas Bousser

Schiaparelli, Iris Van Herpen, Hermès and Loewe © Musée du Louvre - Nicolas Bousser

Versace © Musée du Louvre - Nicolas Bousser

Paco Rabanne, Balenciaga, Loewe and Gareth Pugh © Musée du Louvre - Nicolas Bousser

Duro Olowu and Loewe © Musée du Louvre - Nicolas Bousser

Alexander McQueen and Bottega Veneta © Musée du Louvre - Nicolas Bousser

LŠ: Are there plans to dedicate another show to fashion interventions and dialogues within the Louvre?

OG: Some visitors said we should keep the current exhibition: "Oh, you should keep it like this and change it around." However, I am not sure that’s the spirit of the Louvre. Firstly, as we have 9 million visitors a year, we are not doing this exhibition to attract more visitors to the Louvre, which is a great freedom in comparison with other museums. We don’t need to have a great fashion exhibition to increase our visitor numbers—we already have them. So I think that's an incredible luxury today—to say, "We are very happy. The exhibition is a great success."

What is exciting is that we noticed different visitors in the galleries— younger. I visit the spaces about three times a day, and I see new demographics, and the rooms are more packed. Visitors are looking at the collections, at fashion, and learning. 

In a way, we are lucky at the Louvre because we have no fashion collection, so we have no obligation to stage a specific event like a gala. We have the freedom to think, in the forthcoming years, of perhaps another project in a different department, with a different definition of interaction. We are currently developing many ideas, looking at all the departments. 

LŠ: It's almost like you're reading my mind because I was thinking—would you like to involve other departments as well? 

OG: Many of them. I think you will be able to guess the next one. (laughs)